http://www.scribd.com/doc/14750411/Imaginary-2
Flynn + Yui
29.4.09
28.4.09
23.4.09
Sustainability / Trans-disciplinarity:
A concern for people and environments between confusing terminology and outdated approaches
Ashraf M. Salama, Ph.D.
Professor of Architecture
INTBAU: Sustainability / Trans-disciplinarity, A Concern for People and Environments between Confusing Terminology and Outdated Approaches
The proposed approach adopts the view that sustainability cannot be addressed as one subject; it includes different disciplines and issues requiring systemic thinking. A fuller understanding can be achieved by investigating the key issues simultaneously; not dealing with them separately each at a time. It is envisioned that this approach would include technology and engineering issues; organizational, human and management issues; functional, behavioral and cultural issues; financial issues; and urban and landscape issues. It is also believed that these issues should be integrated within a political, legislative, comprehensive process while learning from the past; the vernacular, the traditional, and the development practices that acquired meaning over time.
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The Existence of Creativity
This is a very casual conversation of me and my friend who psychology. We talked about the topic of the Existence of Creativity on 29-03-2009. We had our non-official conclusion on the topic. It's really casual, but I think it's interesting so I share.
fire lemon says: u may only want to focus on the Conclusion part feel free feel free to kill me Geoffardy says: then how do you explain abstract in relation to logic and reasoning? fire lemon says: random accessing experience? a way of brain functioning? Geoffardy says: so are abstract thoughts part of creativity? fire lemon says: stimulated by past experience and ..... u know, i'm messed up too, but just didn't feel right about the whole concept i have doubt it's like asking a baby to create the shape Triangle but without seeing Line, how can they 'create' Triangle and is it really possible that the image Triangle suddenly jump out from the baby's mind? i was thinking that everything we have is from the earth what improve human history is the Accident Geoffardy says: i see what you mean you're saying that people create things through pre-existing knowledge fire lemon says: yes Geoffardy says: what about our ancestors? fire lemon says: Accident what i mentioned in my paper the Accident contact with the physical world Geoffardy says: which is pretty much "trial and error" that you sorta rejected? fire lemon says: nono trial and error is the God i mean sorry i mean the MOST IMPORTANT THING Geoffardy says: hmmm fire lemon says: um um what do u think Geoffardy says: do you think babies dream? fire lemon says: wow... could be but what about before born? Geoffardy says: if they do, does it mean there's creativity involved? fire lemon says: but dreaming could be about experience past experience isn't that what u guys say? dream is the re-organising data in brain Geoffardy says: yeah but newborn babies, without data, how do they dream? fire lemon says: do they hear at the time they born? it could be made of sounds only just like the way a blind person can't dream Images but sounds but once he's not blind anymore, he starts to see images Geoffardy says: that's not totally right let me look that up fire lemon says: okok it has been bothering me, i have a lot of questions about the mind and body and how we experience the world Geoffardy says: ok fire lemon says: haha Geoffardy says: blind people who're born blind do not see images in their dreams fire lemon says: yea~! Geoffardy says: they experience the other sensory information but not visual HOWEVER if a newborn had seen something, light or shapes or humans, and then becomes blind, that newborn will still see images in his/her dreams even when he grows up to be an adult fire lemon says: yea! Geoffardy says: and that image can be something different, or created basing on 1 or 2 visual experiences fire lemon says: so his experience will be like 'this' little, so the 'creativity' will be almost none yea! Geoffardy says: so if he has seen a straight line, cos he's been looking at the ceiling where there's a string hung around, i'm not surprised that he can imagine a triangle from it fire lemon says: really!?!?!?!?!?!??!?! right but still Geoffardy says: all it takes is just something fire lemon says: the triangle is made of lines Geoffardy says: as minimal as it can be fire lemon says: he can enver made something out of line Geoffardy says: although they can't see but they can probably imagine it in their head let's say if you take them by the hand and trace out a circle with their finger, chances are they can imagine how a circle looks like in their head... now that image is created only through imagination/creativity fire lemon says: wait, but what if we minimize the case to nothing but a line in head nothign else a baby with a line in head with no more knowledge or contact with anyone else forever Geoffardy says: what i said before was for someone who's born blind fire lemon says: he's still undergoing Mental Trial and Error only Geoffardy says: just ask them to imagine and they can imagine fire lemon says: o.... o....... but what can they imagine? imagination must base on Experience unless he can Create unless Real Creativity exist Geoffardy says: imagination is based on some experience not all of it fire lemon says: i mean the illusion that we 'can create' is that we have experienced the world so much Geoffardy says: you don't have to see an object to imagine it i can describe it to you by words, and you can probably form it in your head fire lemon says: but Language contains Experience Language is so an artifical thing one needs to understand the world before understanding Language Language is the summary of human Experience gathered through history not unless we have direct brain communication Geoffardy says: language doesn't contain visual information for a blind person so it has nothing to do with him being able to see in his head fire lemon says: but how can a born blind people going to know what is a line Geoffardy says: as i said all you need to do is to ask them to imagine take them by the hand, hold their finger, and trace a straight line with that finger fire lemon says: right Geoffardy says: and they can imagine it fire lemon says: but then u're importing Spatial imformantion to a blind what if u are not allowed to give them a Spatial Experience to him? Geoffardy says: ask them to imagine a 3D object in their head, they can do it fire lemon says: there's a book called Johnny Got A Gun something Geoffardy says: spatial information is only relevant to a sighted person what we're giving him is tactile information, the sense of touch but for him, a blind person, to translate tactile information to visual information, it needs a lot of creativity and imagine on his part it's creative because it doesn't necessarily mean that he's imagining the exact same thing because he can't see colour fire lemon says: o~~~~~~ Geoffardy says: but the fact that he's imagine something fire lemon says: right i heard of that one too they tell blue to him Geoffardy says: something that resembles to the object in question now that's creativity fire lemon says: but he imagined something else Geoffardy says: yeah fire lemon says: that's cool Geoffardy says: there's research that says that the part where visual information is processed in the brain is activated when a blind person is asked to trace or feel something fire lemon says: how can he create that colour... Geoffardy says: yeah fire lemon says: haha Geoffardy says: it's pure imagination http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-4T3M6B4-7&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f4f9402e71f622441cd863aa23c3ed8b fire lemon says: o...... wait!!!!!!!! wait!!!! but it's not fia fair coz u know we have cases saying that some genius can see colours when they are calculating is it possible that it is the overlayin of the brain process that allow the blind to do that? Geoffardy says: those are not genius fire lemon says: can one argue that 5 senses are sepearated? or in fact just one big experience? Geoffardy says: they are savants, a form of autism 自閉綜合症 fire lemon says: o~~ Geoffardy says: 5 senses are separated in different parts of the brain but there's an associative network that connects them fire lemon says: shit... i'm trying to argue the brain but what if colours is already pre-exist in human's brain? before born Geoffardy says: nah fire lemon says: the logic of human, the logic of the structure of the eyeball it's just the mapping is different Geoffardy says: u can't see in your mother's womb cos it's so dark nah you can't even open your eyes how can u see colour fire lemon says: no, i'm just the biological fact of the eyes to inspires colour Geoffardy says: u wouldn't even know how to breathe cos u didnt need to lol fire lemon says: no.... right Geoffardy says: no, i don't think a baby has prior knowledge of the world before they're born unless they are reincarnated 投胎 fire lemon says: haha cool Geoffardy says: then we'll have to ask 閻羅王why he/she didn't drink the 孟婆湯 fire lemon says: HEY!!!!! HEY!!! WTF!!! wait@@@@ see!!!! Can someone imagine the 6th sense? tell me Geoffardy says: how totally yeah totally fire lemon says: um....................................... Geoffardy says: i felt someone beside me all the time lol fire lemon says: hahaha Geoffardy says: and girls claim to have it fire lemon says: in this sense our theory will go further that human are able to create the 6 7 8 th sense? that it is possible* but Feeling could be a form of the Touching sense 6th 7th 8th mean something out of the 5 senses u see, you're trying to use Touch to inspire a blind to 'see' in this sense, we human will be able to inspire 6th sense with 5 sense as a result, it proves the existence of 6th sense the N th senses this conversation is just purely inspiring.. i'll save it.. hey, but after all, we still can not prove that Creativiity can exist on 1 individual sense the example u have given is 1 sense inspired by another sense doesn't mean Vision can create Vision by itself
My initial point is that Creativity does not exist. Turns out that we find something imaginative.
firelemon = Me
Geoffardy = Geoffardy
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